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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:23 pm Post subject: Revised Soulknife! |
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All right... I spent time killing myself with word details and ideas and finally figured that I can't do any better on my own. How does this look?
SOULKNIFE
Hit Die: d6.
Requirements
To qualify to become a soulknife, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Move Silently: 3 ranks.
Powers: Ability to manifest 2nd level powers.
Knowledge (psionics): 3 ranks.
Class Skills
The soulknife's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff(Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str) Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Stabilize Self (Con), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
| Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special | AC Bonus | Spell Casting
| | 1st | +0 | +0 | +2 | +0 | Mind Blade, sneak attack +1d6 | +1 | -
| | 2nd | +1 | +0 | +3 | +0 | Imbed Power, throw mind-blade | +1 | +1 level of existing class
| | 3rd | +2 | +1 | +3 | +1 | Sneak attack +2d6 | +1 | -
| | 4th | +3 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Neural Attack: Disorientation | +2 | +1 level of existing class
| | 5th | +3 | +1 | +4 | +1 | Sneak attack +3d6 | +2 | -
| | 6th | +4 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Neural: Attack: Disruption, free draw | +2 | +1 level of existing class
| | 7th | +5 | +2 | +5 | +2 | Sneak attack +4d6 | +3 | -
| | 8th | +6 | +2 | +6 | +2 | Upgrade | +3 | +1 level of existing class
| | 9th | +6 | +3 | +6 | +3 | Sneak Attack +5d6 | +3 | -
| | 10th | +7 | +3 | +7 | +3 | Neural Attack: Dissolution | +4 | +1 level of existing class |
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the soulknife prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Soulknives are proficient with light armor but not with shields. They are proficient with their mind-blades.
AC Bonus:The psychic awareness of the Soulknife gives him a bonus to AC. This bonus is unnamed and is not lost for any reason.
Effective Manifester Level: At every level indicated on the table for this prestige class, the character gains new power points per day and access to discovered powers as if he had also gained a level in the psionic class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, reduced discipline power cost, etc). He does gain the following benefits: increased effective level of psionic manifestation, additional power points, effective additional levels for psicrystal powers, and additional free manifestations of 0-level powers. If a character had more than one psionic class before becoming a member of this prestige class, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining Effective Manifester Level.
Mindblade (Su): As a move-equivalent action, the soulknife creates a semisolid blade 1 foot in length composed of psychic energy (distilled from his own mind). As long as he holds the blade, it is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword and deals 1d6 piercing damage. The blade can be broken; however, the soulknife can simply create another on his or her next move-equivalent action. The moment the soulknife relinquishes his or her grip on the blade, it dissipates. The soulknife may take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization (if of the appropriate class), or Weapon Finesse in conjunction with the mind-blade.
When the soulknife reaches 2nd level, the mind-blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus; at 4th level, +2; at 6th level, +3; at 8th level, +4; and at 10th level, +5. The enhancement bonus applies to each mind-blade created, including those that are thrown, upgraded, and imbedded (see below).
Even where psionics do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), the soulknife can try to sustain the mind-blade by making a Fortitude save against the DC set by the creator of the effect. Even on a successful save, the soulknife must roll again next round to keep the mind-blade in existence.
The mind-blade can be used as long as the soulknife's power point reserve is 1 or more.
Sneak Attack (Ex): A soulknife can make sneak attacks exactly like a rogue, but only with his mind-blade. Any time the soulknife's target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC, the mind-blade attack deals +1d6 points of damage. This extra damage increases by +1d6 every other level (+2d6 at 3rd level, +3d6 at 5th level, and so on). The soulknife benefits from this ability as long as his power point reserve is 1 or more.
Imbed Power (Sp): At 2nd level, the soulknife can imbed any one psionic power of 3rd level or lower that he knows in his mind-blade. Using this ability is a move-equivalent action, and the soulknife must pay the cost of the power to imbed it. The imbedded power automatically affects the next target that the soulknife successfully attacks with the mind-blade, with no saving throw allowed. Even if the power normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. The power is discharged and "flushes" the mind-blade, which can then hold another power. A mind-blade can never have more than one power imbedded at a time.
Throw Mindblade (Su): At 2nd level, the soulknife can throw his mind-blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet. Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind-blade then dissipates. The soulknife can make a sneak attack with a thrown mind-blade (within 30 feet), and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as imbedding a power in it). The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 1 or more.
Neural Attack: Disorientation (Sp): At 4th level, the soulknife can imbed a neural attack in his mind-blade. This ability requires a move-equivalent action that the soulknife must 3 pay power points to activate. The imbedded energy automatically affects the next target the soulknife successfully attacks with his mind-blade. At the time of imbedding, the soulknife may choose to make his target violently ill, causing the victim to become nauseated for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. Alternatively, the soulknife may choose to sap the energy of his opponent, causing the victim to become exhausted for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. These two effects cannot be imbedded in the mind-blade at the same time. Each time they are activated, the soulknife must pay the required power point cost. Once the soulknife has affected his target, the attack is discharged and "flushes" the mind-blade, which can then hold another neural attack. A mind-blade can never have more than one neural attack or power imbedded at a time, nor can a neural attack and a power be imbedded at the same time.
Neural Attack: Disruption (Su): When a soulknife reaches 6th level, his neural attacks have more drastic effects on the target's nervous system. The soulknife may choose between two additional effects to imbed. The soulknife can choose to deprive a creature of its ability to sense what's going on around it. This effect blinds and deafens the target. Alternatively, the soulknife may short-circuit his target's nervous system causing the victim to be stunned. Both of these effects last for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. Imbedding these neural attacks costs 5 power points. The soulknife can use this ability so long as his power point reserve is 11 or more.
Free Draw (Su): At 6th level, a soulknife can materialize his mind-blade as a free action instead of a move-equivalent action. The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 9 or more.
Upgrade (Su): On reaching 8th level, the soulknife achieves greater control over his mind's power. His mind-blade's base characteristics are now those of a longsword, so that it deals 1d8 slashing damage. All feat benefits previously applied to the mind-blade (such as Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus) apply to the upgraded version. The soulknife can use the upgraded mind-blade as long as his power point reserve is 7 or more.
Neural Attack: Dissolution (Su): At 10th level, the soulknife becomes expert at overriding his target's nervous system. He may now choose to completely immobilize his target, paralyzing him for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. This neural attack requires 7 power points to activate. The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 17 or more.
Last edited by Maj on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:14 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Aramil_Dunskar
Young Dragon
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Not bad. Not bad. I like the new ability you made.
gives two thumbs up |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Thanx for your compliment!!
I posted it to the WotC boards so I can hopefully have it get torn to shreds. |
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MRDOD
Old Dragon
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| good! I like it. less Roguish and more Psionic, I think. |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Edited: I added another stipulation to the requirements so that it was clear that Inner Strength doesn't count as giving base power points. For the record, though - if a psiwarrior wants to spend his first four feats on Inner Strength in order to qualify for this prestige class, I don't care.
Also changed Mind-blade from a spell-like ability to a supernatural one. PR and dispel psionics are not things I want to have screwing this character over.
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Josh_Kablack
Tiamat's Consort
Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 3837
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| Maj wrote: | All right... I spent time killing myself with word details and ideas and finally figured that I can't do any better on my own. How does this look?
SOULKNIFE
Hit Die: d6.
Requirements
To qualify to become a soulknife, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Move Silently: 3 ranks.
Base Power Points/Day: 9+ (not including bonus power points or those gained through feats such as Inner Strength). |
Okay, I know this is a fairly standard Psi thing, but I don't think I like it.
Has anyone ever written a spellcasting PrC with a prereq of "Must be able to cast at least 2 second level and 3 first level spells per day" ?
A base PP prereq doesn't do anything that a manifester level (or minimum power level) prereq wouldn't do and takes a considerably larger parenthetical to explain.
| Quote: |
Knowledge (psionics): 3 ranks.
Class Skills
The soulknife's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Stabilize Self (Con) and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
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That's 9 Class skills and 4 + Int SkP/level
A human with an Int of 20 will have more skill points than class skills to spend them on. That's high, but not unlikely as Int could be the primary discipline for a Psion who qualifies for this class.
You might want to add a few other class skills - like maybe Craft & Profession and possibly a few additionaly knowledges or thiefy type skills (Locks, Climb, Bluff)
Overall, this class offers
BAB is as Cleric, Reflex Save Good, D6 HD, 4+ SkP/level, light armor proficiency and a half-level manifester progression plus special abilties.
This means that a Psion is trading in 5 levels of "spellcasting" (And 3 Psi combat modes) for a better BAB, better HD and the special abilities.
Or a Psiwarrior is trading in 5 levels of minor "spellcasting", an average of 1HP/level, 3 bonus feats, and 7 modes in exchange for more skill points and the special abilities.
| Quote: |
1st Mind-blade, sneak attack +1d6 -
2nd Imbed power, throw mind-blade, +1 level of existing class
3rd Sneak attack +2d6 -
4th Neural Disorientation, +1 level of existing class
5th Sneak attack +3d6 -
6th Neural Disruption, free draw +1 level of existing class
7th Sneak attack +4d6 -
8th Upgrade, +1 level of existing class
9th Sneak attack +5d6 -
10th Neural Dissolution, +1 level of existing class
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the soulknife prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Soulknives are proficient with light armor but not with shields. They are proficient with their mind-blades. |
Sweet!! Mithral Chain Shirt
| Quote: |
Effective Manifester Level: At every level indicated on the table for this prestige class, the character gains new power points per day and access to discovered powers as if he had also gained a level in the psionic class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, reduced discipline power cost, etc). He does gain the following benefits: increased effective level of psionic manifestation, additional power points, effective additional levels for psicrystal powers, |
That's interesting, arcane PrCs generally don't offer familiar advancement.
| Quote: |
and additional free manifestations of 0-level powers. If a character had more than one psionic class before becoming a member of this prestige class, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining Effective Manifester Level. |
You may or may not want to also considering giving additional Psi-Combat modes with the effective manifester levels. However, Psi-Combat is such a morass and there are so many optional rules for it that I can't say if doing to is a good or bad idea.
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Mind-Blade (Su): As a move-equivalent action, the soulknife creates a semisolid blade 1 foot in length composed of psychic energy (distilled from his own mind). As long as he holds the blade, it is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword and deals 1d6 piercing damage. The blade can be broken; however, the soulknife can simply create another on his or her next move-equivalent action. The moment the soulknife relinquishes his or her grip on the blade, it dissipates. The soulknife may take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization (if of the appropriate class), or Weapon Finesse in conjunction with the mind-blade.
When the soulknife reaches 2nd level, the mind-blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus; at 4th level, +2; at 6th level, +3; at 8th level, +4; and at 10th level, +5. The enhancement bonus applies to each mind-blade created, including those that are thrown, upgraded, and imbedded (see below).
Even where psionics do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), the soulknife can try to sustain the mind-blade by making a Fortitude save against the DC set by the creator of the effect. Even on a successful save, the soulknife must roll again next round to keep the mind-blade in existence.
The mind-blade can be used as long as the soulknife's power point reserve is 1 or more.
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Good grief, I see that I have in the past been far too kind to Bruce Cordell. That wording is horribly painful.
He has mechanical errors, format errors, needless ambiguity, gender swapping, and phrasings that go against established precedent in those 4 paragraphs.
I will now take no more than 20 minutes to write it in a clearer, shorter and more consistant with the rest of the rules fashion and clear up some minor rules oddities.
Here:
"Mind-Blade (Su): A soulknife has the supernatural ability to create a blade of psychic energy. Doing so is a move equivalent action and requires that the Soulknife have at least 1 reserve power point. For medium-sized characters, this blade is a small piercing weapon that deals 1d6 damage with a 19-20 crit range. For small characters the blade is a tiny weapon that deals 1d4 damage. (for characters of unusual sizes, adjust the size and damage according to the guidelines in the DMG). The blade can be negated, disarmed, or broken (base Hardness 10, base HP 2); however, the soulknife can simply create another next round. The mind-blade works only for the soulknife and if he relinquishes his grip on the blade for any reason, it dissipates.
Any feat, spell, power or class feature which may be applied to melee weapons may also be taken with or applied to the mind-blade.
When the soulknife reaches 2nd level, the mind-blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus; at 4th level, +2; at 6th level, +3; at 8th level, +4; and at 10th level, +5.
Even where psionics do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field or dead psionics area), the soulknife can try to sustain the mind-blade by making a Fortitude save. (DC 30 for dead psionics areas; DC set as if the supressing power allowed a save normally for null psionics field and similar effects. On a successful save, the mind-blade stays in existence for that round, on a failed save it dissapates."
Bummer, that's not actaully shorter. 
I still think it's better and clears up a lot of ambiguities.
| Quote: |
Sneak Attack (Ex):
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+5 dice, but with a limited weapon. Okay
| stupid little detail wrote: |
Imbed Power (Sp): At 2nd level, the soulknife can imbed any one psionic power of 3rd level or lower that he knows |
Is this hosey on purpose?
Is it necessary to prevent Psions from imbedding powers out of Dorjes or Psicrystals?
Is it really necessary to prevent Psions from using Emulate Power to imbed powers?
I'm not seeing why.
| but wait, there's more wrote: |
in his mind-blade. Using this ability is a move-equivalent action, and the soulknife must pay the cost of the power to imbed it.
The imbedded power automatically affects the next target that the soulknife successfully attacks with the mind-blade, with no saving throw allowed. |
Um, this is just a little bit good.
I can take a MEA (which does provoke an AoO) to imbed Lesser Domination and then whack someone with it and they get no save. Granted, my BAB is kinda crappy, but I use my Move Silently to whack people in their sleep and then use the 1day/level duration to my advantage - plus they get no save, not even the secondaries for "actions against their natures"
| the madness doesn't stop wrote: |
Even if the power normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. |
Bruce, what the wombat hell is wrong with you?
This is an ability which lets you imbed *any* power from levels 1-3, and then affect anyone else with it. It effectively makes all personal range powers range touch and also lets you do crazy things like Control Air that only affects one target. Additional problems ensue if you add in psi versions of Darkness or similar spells. There's really no excuse for this wording slipping by playtest and editing.
At the very least this needs to be limited in a manner similar to a weapon of spell storing. It probably also needs to allow normal saves - the ability to compress manifestation time into an MEA is decent enough.
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The power is discharged and "flushes" the mind-blade, which can then hold another power. A mind-blade can never have more than one power imbedded at a time. |
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Throw Mind-Blade (Su): At 2nd level, the soulknife can throw his mind-blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet. Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind-blade then dissipates. The soulknife can make a sneak attack with a thrown mind-blade (within 30 feet), and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as imbedding a power in it). The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 1 or more. |
Change wording to: "At 2nd level, the soulknife can throw his mind-blade with a range increment of 30 feet." As currently worded, this is a ranged weapon so Str bonus does not apply.
Have I mentioned that Bruce cannot write mechanics text yet? 
| Quote: |
Neural Disorientation (Sp): At 4th level, the soulknife can imbed a neural attack in his mind-blade. This ability requires a move-equivalent action that the soulknife must 3 power points to activate. |
That clause no verb.
| Quote: |
The imbedded energy automatically affects the next target the soulknife successfully attacks with his mind-blade. The soulknife may choose to make his target violently ill, causing the victim to become nauseated for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. Alternatively, the soulknife may choose to sap the energy of his opponent, causing the victim to feel |
"become", not "feel".
| Quote: |
exhausted for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. These two effects cannot be imbedded in the mind-blade at the same time. Each time they are activated, the soulknife must pay the required power point cost. Once the soulknife has affected his target, the attack is discharged and "flushes" the mind-blade, which can then hold another neural attack. A mind-blade can never have more than one neural attack or power imbedded at a time. |
Clear that up - "or" is not inherently exclusive.
Try: "These two effects cannot be imbedded in the mind blade at the same time, nor can a neural attack and a power be embedded at the same time"
Also, clearly specify if the exhaustion/nauseated effect needs to be chosen at embed-time or only at discharge time.
And furthermore, I don't think I like the idea of having abilities which require both a PP activation cost and a set number of reserve PP. At the very least that sort of thing will cause a small amount of order of operations confusion. It's likely that out-of-turn activation of defense modes will cause outright bafflement about whether charged abilities are still accessible after PP reserves have dropped or not.
| Quote: |
Neural Disruption (Su): When a soulknife reaches 6th level, his neural attacks have more drastic effects on the target's nervous system. The soulknife may choose between two additional effects to imbed. The soulknife can choose to deprive a creature of its ability to sense what's going on around it. This effect blinds and deafens the target. Alternatively, the soulknife may short-circuit his target's nervous system causing the victim to be stunned. Both of these effects last for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. Imbedding these neural attacks costs 5 power points. The soulknife can use this ability so long as his power point reserve is 11 or more. |
To be pedantic you need to note that these neural effects cannot be embedded together, nor in conjuction with the prior neural effects. There's probably a way to word it clearly by folding all the "neural" effects into a single ability that offers more options with higher levels (think Uncanny Dodge) and then just globally noting that only one given effect can be embedded at any one time.
| Quote: |
Free Draw (Su): At 6th level, a soulknife can materialize his mind-blade as a free action instead of a move-equivalent action. The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 9 or more. |
This needs to be limited to once per round if you're keeping the Null Psionics Field Fort save. Otherwise saving every round is just pointless, as even if the blade dissipates you can just keep manifesting it until you make the save. Hrm, maybe I need to go back and redo that clause to clarify whether you can actually activate a mind blade in such a field or whether you can only "sustain" it. 
| Quote: |
Upgrade (Su): On reaching 8th level, the soulknife achieves greater control over his mind's power. His mind-blade's base characteristics are now those of a longsword, so that it deals 1d8 slashing damage. All feat benefits previously applied to the mind-blade (such as Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus) apply to the upgraded version. The soulknife can use the upgraded mind-blade as long as his power point reserve is 7 or more. |
Um, this means that Halflings now must use Mindblades two-handed. (Under Bruce's wordings they can't even take Monkey Grip with it ) and Grig Soulknives just can't use this ability at all. Damage and weapon size really should scale with character size here.
And once you already have +4 to hit and +4 to damage, an additional average +1 to damage really isn't that great.
Plus if you use Upgrade the damage type changes from Piercing to Slashing - which isn't really wrong, just odd and sure to cause confusion if not explictly noted.
| Quote: |
Neural Dissolution (Su): At 10th level, the soulknife becomes expert at overriding his target's nervous system. He may now choose to completely incapacitate his target, paralyzing him for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife's level divided by two. This neural attack requires 7 power points to activate. The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 17 or more.
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You probably should not use "Incapacitate" for a "Paralyze" effect. both are status conditions defined on DMG 84 and possible confusion can result (cf. Frank vs. MM board, Staking a Vampire argument)
Now with all the minor mechanical stuff (Have I mentioned that Bruce cannot write decent mechanics text?) out of the way, I'd just like to say that I'd come at this class from a different angle. I like the concept, but I would ditch or reduce the Sneak Attack (yes it combos extremely well with the stun or paralyze rounds) in favor of a more interesting Mind Blade progression.
I would personally let it Upgrade at least twice - going from a size category one less than soulknife size to same as soulknife size to one larger than soulknife size (possibly also going from piercing to slashing to bludgeoning).
I would also allow the soulknife to select from a small list of +1 cost equivalent weapon abilities (Keen, Ghost Touch, Defending, Fire, Frost, Shock) at one or more levels - in addition to having it get enhancement bonuses.
I might or might not also offer a few bonus [Psionic] feats for the class. This PrC really screams for Deep Impact, but that's an almost prohibitively expensive feat expenditure for it as is.
But those changes would end up making the class more Psi-Warrior like and less rogue/assassin-like, so I guess it comes down to what flavor you want.
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Three points (I'll answer later, when I'm not dead tired):
1) Flavorwise, I'm aiming for Psylocke.
2) The point of redoing this class is to eliminate psionic combat, so including additional psicombat modes is kinda self-defeating (sorry... that was in my first post about soulknives, not this thread).
3) Thank you, Josh. |
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Essence
Spectral Dragon
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Age: 34
Posts: 1270
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Thanks for the input, Josh! Maj has really been busting spoon trying to get this whole "eliminate psionic combat" thing done, and this is the last step...we hope. 
| Josh wrote: | | The blade can be negated, disarmed, or broken (base Hardness 10, base HP 2) |
Can it be negated? It's listed as a Supernatural ability...
| Josh wrote: | | this is a ranged weapon so Str bonus does not apply. |
I thought it was only projectile weapons to which Str bonus did not apply. All thrown weapons are ranged weapons, are they not?
| Josh wrote: | | (Free Draw) needs to be limited to once per round if you're keeping the Null Psionics Field Fort save. |
Unfortunately, there is an intent for a Soulknife to be able to throw multiple mindblades in a single round. Limiting Free Draw to once per round would pretty much rule that option out.
| Josh wrote: | | Damage and weapon size really should scale with character size here. |
Why? I agree that the wording is mechanically flawed, but if this weapon called a 'mindblade' does damage based on the psychic power of the wielder, why should a Grig's mindblade hurt any less?
If anything, the error is in the phrase "all ways identical to" -- it should say "damage, crit range, damage type, and crit multiplier of", and have seperate listings for weight, hardness, hp, size, etc.
Perhaps something like:
| Maj Quoting BRC with my changes worked in wrote: | | As a move-equivalent action, the soulknife creates a semisolid blade 1 foot in length composed of psychic energy (distilled from his own mind). As long as he holds the blade, it is identical to a short sword in terms of damage, damage type, and critical matrix. Mindblades count as one size category smaller than the Soulknife creating them, though the size of the mindblade has no effect on its characteristics. Mindblades have a Hardness of 10 and 5 HP and weigh nothing. |
And then change Upgrade:
| just me this time wrote: | | The Soulknife's mindblade grows in power and just generally looks cooler and more badass. The mindblade now does 1d8 damage and can deal either piercing or slashing damage at the Soulknife's whim. The mind-blade now has hardness of 25 and 10 HP. The mindblade's other characteristics remain the same. |
Whaddya think?
Essence 
Champion of the Heterodoxy
_________________
Dungeons of Dredmor. Play it. Love it. |
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Josh_Kablack
Tiamat's Consort
Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 3837
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| Essence wrote: | Thanks for the input, Josh! Maj has really been busting spoon trying to get this whole "eliminate psionic combat" thing done, and this is the last step...we hope.
| Josh wrote: | | The blade can be negated, disarmed, or broken (base Hardness 10, base HP 2) |
Can it be negated? It's listed as a Supernatural ability... |
Okay, then delete that.
But in my defense there, are specific (Su) abilities that are noted as subject to Dispel/Negate, even if generally (Su) abiliies aren't. So my wording there is just sloppy - not necessarily incorrect. 
| Quote: |
| Josh wrote: | | this is a ranged weapon so Str bonus does not apply. |
I thought it was only projectile weapons to which Str bonus did not apply. All thrown weapons are ranged weapons, are they not? |
Yep, my bad. As per PHB 281 "ranged weapon" includes both thrown and projectile. For some reason (probably the pounding headache I had last night) I was thinking that ranged=projectile. Sorry.
| Quote: |
| Josh wrote: | | (Free Draw) needs to be limited to once per round if you're keeping the Null Psionics Field Fort save. |
Unfortunately, there is an intent for a Soulknife to be able to throw multiple mindblades in a single round. Limiting Free Draw to once per round would pretty much rule that option out. |
Well really any finite number of times works here, one is just the usual standard for such things. A possible alternative is working an increasing number of free draws/round into the PrC progression to keep pace with BAB (or with BAB +2 attacks for Rapid Shot + Hustle/Haste)
I'd also consider changing the Null Psi Field mechanic - if you only allow it to be sustained but not manifested in such circumstances, attempting to activate it 73 times/round no longer becomes a problem.
| Quote: |
| Josh wrote: | | Damage and weapon size really should scale with character size here. |
Why? I agree that the wording is mechanically flawed, but if this weapon called a 'mindblade' does damage based on the psychic power of the wielder, why should a Grig's mindblade hurt any less? |
That comes down to whether you want Tiny characters to ever use any other weapons or not, and whether you want Large or Huge characters to rely on Mind Blades to an equal or lesser extent. I hear what you're saying flavor-wise, and it won't matter much if you only have small and medium characters, but if you have oddball characters your option for static mind-blade damage becomes more attractive the smaller the character and less attractive the larger the character.
If a Tiny character can use a 1d8 crit 19 weapon that's also throwable 30' increment as a light weapon, they are never really going to be interested in picking up a 1d4 crit 19 throwable 10' increment one handed dagger.
Since a Storm Giant (or other Huge character) can use a 2d6 Greatsword as a light weapon, Mind Blade is only going to be useful for Imbedding, throwing or in cases where they don't have a physical weapon of equal enhancement bonus.
| Quote: |
If anything, the error is in the phrase "all ways identical to" -- it should say "damage, crit range, damage type, and crit multiplier of", and have seperate listings for weight, hardness, hp, size, etc. |
Right, my big problem is that with fixed weapon sizes the mind-blade conceivably becomes unusable by odd-sized characters.
| Quote: |
Perhaps something like:
| Maj Quoting BRC with my changes worked in wrote: | | As a move-equivalent action, the soulknife creates a semisolid blade 1 foot in length composed of psychic energy (distilled from his own mind). As long as he holds the blade, it is identical to a short sword in terms of damage, damage type, and critical matrix. Mindblades count as one size category smaller than the Soulknife creating them, though the size of the mindblade has no effect on its characteristics. Mindblades have a Hardness of 10 and 5 HP and weigh nothing. | |
Close, but size itself is a weapon characteristic and affects disarms and other combat options. "..the size has no effect on its other characteristics." would probably work.
| Quote: |
And then change Upgrade:
| just me this time wrote: | | The Soulknife's mindblade grows in power and just generally looks cooler and more badass. The mindblade now does 1d8 damage and can deal either piercing or slashing damage at the Soulknife's whim. The mind-blade now has hardness of 25 and 10 HP. The mindblade's other characteristics remain the same. Whaddya think? | |
You know, if "ass" is now acceptable on the cover of Dragon, then more PrCs really ought to use "badass" in their flavor text. 
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FrankTrollman
Legendary Dragon
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 2398
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Supernatural Abilities are, in general, able to be dispelled.
The word has come down that indeed the text in the dispel magic is correct, and the text on page 71 of the DMG is wrong.
Thus, regardless of whether or not you are using Psi/Magic non-equivalency, the blade is still a supernatural ability, and can be dispelled in the same manner as vampiric gasseous form or demonic damage reduction can be.
-Frank |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Thank you, Frank. I found the "word" in the DMG errata.
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| Monsieur Kablack wrote: | | Maj wrote: | Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Move Silently: 3 ranks.
Base Power Points/Day: 9+ (not including bonus power points or those gained through feats such as Inner Strength). |
Okay, I know this is a fairly standard Psi thing, but I don't think I like it.
Has anyone ever written a spellcasting PrC with a prereq of "Must be able to cast at least 2 second level and 3 first level spells per day" ?
A base PP prereq doesn't do anything that a manifester level (or minimum power level) prereq wouldn't do and takes a considerably larger parenthetical to explain. |
I don't like it either, but it doesn't make anymore sense to say "Manifester Level X." Other prestige classes don't work that way. They say things like "must be able to cast first level arcane spells" or something. On that note, I'll amend the prereq to ability to manifest 2nd level powers.
| Quote: | | Quote: | Class Skills
The soulknife's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Stabilize Self (Con) and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
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That's 9 Class skills and 4 + Int SkP/level
A human with an Int of 20 will have more skill points than class skills to spend them on. That's high, but not unlikely as Int could be the primary discipline for a Psion who qualifies for this class.
You might want to add a few other class skills - like maybe Craft & Profession and possibly a few additionaly knowledges or thiefy type skills (Locks, Climb, Bluff) |
My mistake. I secretly added Bluff, Craft, and Profession and neglected to tell you.  Your suggestion has been noted and acted upon.
| Quote: | Overall, this class offers
BAB is as Cleric, Reflex Save Good, D6 HD, 4+ SkP/level, light armor proficiency and a half-level manifester progression plus special abilties.
This means that a Psion is trading in 5 levels of "spellcasting" (And 3 Psi combat modes) for a better BAB, better HD and the special abilities.
Or a Psiwarrior is trading in 5 levels of minor "spellcasting", an average of 1HP/level, 3 bonus feats, and 7 modes in exchange for more skill points and the special abilities. |
Yes? What does this mean?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Soulknives are proficient with light armor but not with shields. They are proficient with their mind-blades. |
Sweet!! Mithral Chain Shirt |
This is sarcasm?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Effective Manifester Level: At every level indicated on the table for this prestige class, the character gains new power points per day and access to discovered powers as if he had also gained a level in the psionic class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, reduced discipline power cost, etc). He does gain the following benefits: increased effective level of psionic manifestation, additional power points, effective additional levels for psicrystal powers, |
That's interesting, arcane PrCs generally don't offer familiar advancement. |
You know, I didn't even think about it. We play with advancement for familiars because they're next to useless at high levels even with it, let alone without it. And it was also in the wording from ITCK. Because of those two reasons, I didn't blink twice. Should I change it?
| Quote: | | You may or may not want to also considering giving additional Psi-Combat modes with the effective manifester levels. However, Psi-Combat is such a morass and there are so many optional rules for it that I can't say if doing to is a good or bad idea. |
I'm sorry... My comment concerning the purpose of redoing this class was in another thread. Basically, I've been holding back on changing the psicombat system because of the Soulknife. It's been too annoying to bear, however, and so I finally gave in. This is my attempt to redo the Soulknife so that I can knock psicombat out of the game. 
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Mind-Blade (Su): As a move-equivalent action, the soulknife creates a semisolid blade 1 foot in length composed of psychic energy (distilled from his own mind). As long as he holds the blade, it is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword and deals 1d6 piercing damage. The blade can be broken; however, the soulknife can simply create another on his or her next move-equivalent action. The moment the soulknife relinquishes his or her grip on the blade, it dissipates. The soulknife may take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization (if of the appropriate class), or Weapon Finesse in conjunction with the mind-blade.
When the soulknife reaches 2nd level, the mind-blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus; at 4th level, +2; at 6th level, +3; at 8th level, +4; and at 10th level, +5. The enhancement bonus applies to each mind-blade created, including those that are thrown, upgraded, and imbedded (see below).
Even where psionics do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), the soulknife can try to sustain the mind-blade by making a Fortitude save against the DC set by the creator of the effect. Even on a successful save, the soulknife must roll again next round to keep the mind-blade in existence.
The mind-blade can be used as long as the soulknife's power point reserve is 1 or more.
|
Good grief, I see that I have in the past been far too kind to Bruce Cordell. That wording is horribly painful.
He has mechanical errors, format errors, needless ambiguity, gender swapping, and phrasings that go against established precedent in those 4 paragraphs. |
Don't attribute the gender issues to him. It's a copy/paste job from Cordell's wording and the SRD. The SRD does the gender swapping bit. 
| Quote: | | I will now take no more than 20 minutes to write it in a clearer, shorter and more consistant with the rest of the rules fashion and clear up some minor rules oddities. |
You don't write for idiots, do you? You're used to someone with a brain reading what you write... Fair warning: I obviously have no brain.
| Quote: | Here:
"Mind-Blade (Su): A soulknife has the supernatural ability to create a blade of psychic energy. Doing so is a move equivalent action and requires that the Soulknife have at least 1 reserve power point. For medium-sized characters, this blade is a small piercing weapon that deals 1d6 damage with a 19-20 crit range. For small characters the blade is a tiny weapon that deals 1d4 damage. (for characters of unusual sizes, adjust the size and damage according to the guidelines in the DMG). The blade can be negated, disarmed, or broken (base Hardness 10, base HP 2); however, the soulknife can simply create another next round. The mind-blade works only for the soulknife and if he relinquishes his grip on the blade for any reason, it dissipates.
Any feat, spell, power or class feature which may be applied to melee weapons may also be taken with or applied to the mind-blade.
When the soulknife reaches 2nd level, the mind-blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus; at 4th level, +2; at 6th level, +3; at 8th level, +4; and at 10th level, +5.
Even where psionics do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field or dead psionics area), the soulknife can try to sustain the mind-blade by making a Fortitude save. (DC 30 for dead psionics areas; DC set as if the supressing power allowed a save normally for null psionics field and similar effects. On a successful save, the mind-blade stays in existence for that round, on a failed save it dissapates."
Bummer, that's not actaully shorter.
I still think it's better and clears up a lot of ambiguities. |
Question for you: What the hell is a dead psionic zone? Why do I care if that's mentioned in the rules?
| Quote: | | stupid little detail wrote: |
Imbed Power (Sp): At 2nd level, the soulknife can imbed any one psionic power of 3rd level or lower that he knows |
Is this hosey on purpose?
Is it necessary to prevent Psions from imbedding powers out of Dorjes or Psicrystals?
Is it really necessary to prevent Psions from using Emulate Power to imbed powers?
I'm not seeing why. |
I don't get it. Why should higher level powers be allowed? Why should casting from dorjes be allowed? Isn't psionics cheesy enough?
| Quote: | | but wait, there's more wrote: |
in his mind-blade. Using this ability is a move-equivalent action, and the soulknife must pay the cost of the power to imbed it.
The imbedded power automatically affects the next target that the soulknife successfully attacks with the mind-blade, with no saving throw allowed. |
Um, this is just a little bit good.
I can take a MEA (which does provoke an AoO) to imbed Lesser Domination and then whack someone with it and they get no save. Granted, my BAB is kinda crappy, but I use my Move Silently to whack people in their sleep and then use the 1day/level duration to my advantage - plus they get no save, not even the secondaries for "actions against their natures" |
That's most likely why they didn't allow higher level powers brought into the mix. I've been curious about the save thing, but I have to admit I have a secret agenda. As written right now, the Soulknife has no primary stat to worry about - which means that psiwarriors don't have to make one up and psions can go with whatever they do best. I suppose that adding a save to the mix won't really affect that, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.
| Quote: | | the madness doesn't stop wrote: |
Even if the power normally affects an area or is a ray, it affects only the target. |
Bruce, what the wombat hell is wrong with you?
This is an ability which lets you imbed *any* power from levels 1-3, and then affect anyone else with it. It effectively makes all personal range powers range touch and also lets you do crazy things like Control Air that only affects one target. Additional problems ensue if you add in psi versions of Darkness or similar spells. There's really no excuse for this wording slipping by playtest and editing.
At the very least this needs to be limited in a manner similar to a weapon of spell storing. It probably also needs to allow normal saves - the ability to compress manifestation time into an MEA is decent enough. |
Hmm... The Mind's Eye already made all personal range powers range touch by use of another power called... Channel Power, I think.
Basically, the intent of Cordell was to make a mindblade a "power-storing" weapon. With no save? Is there debate as to whether or not that's the case when it comes to spell-storing weapons?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
The power is discharged and "flushes" the mind-blade, which can then hold another power. A mind-blade can never have more than one power imbedded at a time. |
Change wording to: "At 2nd level, the soulknife can throw his mind-blade with a range increment of 30 feet." As currently worded, this is a ranged weapon so Str bonus does not apply.
Have I mentioned that Bruce cannot write mechanics text yet? |
Does your headache last night mean that I don't have to change that line?
| Quote: | | And furthermore, I don't think I like the idea of having abilities which require both a PP activation cost and a set number of reserve PP. At the very least that sort of thing will cause a small amount of order of operations confusion. It's likely that out-of-turn activation of defense modes will cause outright bafflement about whether charged abilities are still accessible after PP reserves have dropped or not. |
No such thing as defense modes. I worry about it because, in my opinion, it's one of the balancing factors of the soulknife. If you only have 100 power points to do stuff with, and you have a reserve to maintain in order to maximize your abilities, you'd better be careful what you're manifesting. I realize the bookkeeping factor, and I don't like it, but I don't know what else to do about limitations. Do you have any recommendations?
| Quote: | | To be pedantic you need to note that these neural effects cannot be embedded together, nor in conjuction with the prior neural effects. There's probably a way to word it clearly by folding all the "neural" effects into a single ability that offers more options with higher levels (think Uncanny Dodge) and then just globally noting that only one given effect can be embedded at any one time. |
So trying to cover that by saying "A mindblade can never have more than one neural attack or power imbedded at a time" doesn't do it? How many times do I have to say this?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Free Draw (Su): At 6th level, a soulknife can materialize his mind-blade as a free action instead of a move-equivalent action. The soulknife can use this ability as long as his power point reserve is 9 or more. |
This needs to be limited to once per round if you're keeping the Null Psionics Field Fort save. Otherwise saving every round is just pointless, as even if the blade dissipates you can just keep manifesting it until you make the save. Hrm, maybe I need to go back and redo that clause to clarify whether you can actually activate a mind blade in such a field or whether you can only "sustain" it. |
Yuck.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Upgrade (Su): On reaching 8th level, the soulknife achieves greater control over his mind's power. His mind-blade's base characteristics are now those of a longsword, so that it deals 1d8 slashing damage. All feat benefits previously applied to the mind-blade (such as Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus) apply to the upgraded version. The soulknife can use the upgraded mind-blade as long as his power point reserve is 7 or more. |
Um, this means that Halflings now must use Mindblades two-handed. (Under Bruce's wordings they can't even take Monkey Grip with it ) and Grig Soulknives just can't use this ability at all. Damage and weapon size really should scale with character size here.
And once you already have +4 to hit and +4 to damage, an additional average +1 to damage really isn't that great.
Plus if you use Upgrade the damage type changes from Piercing to Slashing - which isn't really wrong, just odd and sure to cause confusion if not explictly noted. |
Should I even care if the mindblade gets upgraded? Maybe I ought to just pick some nice stats to begin with and run with those... Like d6 slashing, 18-20 crit range. Scalable up or down; doesn't change ever...?
| Quote: | | Now with all the minor mechanical stuff (Have I mentioned that Bruce cannot write decent mechanics text?) out of the way, I'd just like to say that I'd come at this class from a different angle. I like the concept, but I would ditch or reduce the Sneak Attack (yes it combos extremely well with the stun or paralyze rounds) in favor of a more interesting Mind Blade progression. |
Why?
| Quote: | I would personally let it Upgrade at least twice - going from a size category one less than soulknife size to same as soulknife size to one larger than soulknife size (possibly also going from piercing to slashing to bludgeoning).
I would also allow the soulknife to select from a small list of +1 cost equivalent weapon abilities (Keen, Ghost Touch, Defending, Fire, Frost, Shock) at one or more levels - in addition to having it get enhancement bonuses.
I might or might not also offer a few bonus [Psionic] feats for the class. This PrC really screams for Deep Impact, but that's an almost prohibitivel expensive feat expenditure for it as is.
But those changes would end up making the class more Psi-Warrior like and less rogue/assassin-like, so I guess it comes down to what flavor you want. |
Yes to that last bit. If that were the case, I'd just recommend staying a PsiWarrior. It wouldn't be worth the drop in hit points and caster levels to do the exact same thing with a specific weapon.
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FrankTrollman
Legendary Dragon
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 2398
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| Maj wrote: | | I don't get it. Why should higher level powers be allowed? Why should casting from dorjes be allowed? Isn't psionics cheesy enough? |
The trick here is that many spells can be cast without being known. I'm sure manifesting works the same way.
| Maj wrote: | | Basically, the intent of Cordell was to make a mindblade a "power-storing" weapon. With no save? Is there debate as to whether or not that's the case when it comes to spell-storing weapons? |
Spell Storing Weapons allow a save, and only allow targetted spells (not area spells). Since many area spells make no sense as single target spells (Sleet Storm, for example), that saves us all a massive headache.
Allowing a save is just game balance. Touch spells that do not allow a save are generally a bit nastier than spells that allow a save (Shocking Grasp -> Color Spray, for example), and there are things that can be done with attacks to make them automatically hit (for example: stabbing someone in their sleep), but very little that can be done to make someone automatically fail a save.
Considering that there's effects like Charm Monster and Suggestion - it's probably a good thing that you can't make people automatically fail Will saves under normal circumstances.
-Frank |
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Josh_Kablack
Tiamat's Consort
Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 3837
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| maj wrote: |
You don't write for idiots, do you? You're used to someone with a brain reading what you write... Fair warning: I obviously have no brain. |
You are too kind to me and too hard on yourself.
| Quote: | | I don't get it. Why should higher level powers be allowed? |
Higher level powers should not be allowed.
As psions as limited to knowing a rather limited number of powers, specifying that it has to be a power *known* and not a power manifested from an external source or replicated with a higher level power makes this ability highly limited.
| Quote: |
| Maj wrote: | | Basically, the intent of Cordell was to make a mindblade a "power-storing" weapon. With no save? Is there debate as to whether or not that's the case when it comes to spell-storing weapons? |
Spell Storing Weapons allow a save, and only allow targetted spells (not area spells). Since many area spells make no sense as single target spells (Sleet Storm, for example), that saves us all a massive headache. |
Frank has it there. There are AoE powers in the PsiHB that are already problematic here and this ability makes adding new powers potentially problematic.
As for the no core ability, that's fine, just allow a normal save for the Power (whatever power it may be) and it'll be based on whatever the core ability of the previous class was, no matter how you're handling M.A.D. - no backward compatibility worries
| Quote: |
Yes? What does this mean? |
Just me thinking outloud, er on paper, er on monitor.
Nope. Every single Psion Soulknife is always going to wear a Mithral Chain shirt unless they can beef their Dex up to 32 or better or can afford Mithral Celestial armor.
Psywarrior Soulknives might go for other armor types.
| Quote: | | You know, I didn't even think about it. We play with advancement for familiars because they're next to useless at high levels even with it, let alone without it. And it was also in the wording from ITCK. Because of those two reasons, I didn't blink twice. Should I change it? |
Well caster level PrCs probably ought to work the same for arcane casters with familiars and Psions with rocks, so this is probably fine in your game. (which is, I hope where you'll be using this PrC )
| Quote: |
Don't attribute the gender issues to him. It's a copy/paste job from Cordell's wording and the SRD. The SRD does the gender swapping bit. |
I thought I clearly pointed the finger at Bruce Cordell there
I shall continue to blame Bruce for everything that is wrong with the PsiHB until someone offers evidence that such blame is misplaced in any specific instance.
| Quote: | | Question for you: What the hell is a dead psionic zone? Why do I care if that's mentioned in the rules? |
It's a 2e/Realms thing, although the correct wording should be "area" not "zone"  . They should probably be mentioned in the rules, because their existence is referenced on PsiHB 36, column 1
| Quote: |
Should I even care if the mindblade gets upgraded? Maybe I ought to just pick some nice stats to begin with and run with those... Like d6 slashing, 18-20 crit range. Scalable up or down; doesn't change ever...? |
If it's gaining enhancement bonuses with levels, then Upgrade is going to be minor for damage and only matter for size/disarm and similar things.
| Quote: |
Does your headache last night mean that I don't have to change that line? |
It does mean that the part I thought was problematic isn't actually problematic. It is still, however, redundant. Unless of course you can figure a way to interpret "can throw with a range increment of 30'" to be anything but a ranged attack.
| Quote: |
So trying to cover that by saying "A mindblade can never have more than one neural attack or power imbedded at a time" doesn't do it? How many times do I have to say this? |
I thought you read Frank's posts too
You have to say it once for each seperate ability listing, as you do not explictly define "neural attack" anywhere.
When viewed through the lens of Frank-Logic, the current wording bars you from imbedding a "Neural Disorientation" option and a Power at the same time, but does not bar you from imbedding a "Neural Disruption" option and a Power at the same time, or a "Neural Disruption" and an "Neural Disorientation" option at the same time. You have them listed as seperate abilities and the restrictions on one do not apply to the other.
My problem is that I doubt this doubling-up was your design intent.
Solely flavor.
On a similar flavor note, if you are seriously going for a Psylocke feel, you may want to drop the armor proficiency and offer Monk - style class AC bonuses. |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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Vastly different input from you people versus the PsiBoard people...
They were worried about Ectoplasmic Cocoon.
Basically, allowing soulknives to cast into mindblades from dorjes and the like opens avenues of possibilities for psiwarriors who don't get a wide variety of decent powers to begin with, non?
Fair enough... So how do I write that into the ability? The wording of the Mindblade is gonna be the stickiest point for me... Is manifesting from a dorje a normal standard action, and then a MEA to get that power into the mindblade, or is using a power from a dorje a MEA in this particular instance?
I think I bit off more than I could chew with this one... Obviously I'm suicidal. |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Revised Soulknife! |
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| Josh Kablack wrote: | | maj wrote: |
You don't write for idiots, do you? You're used to someone with a brain reading what you write... Fair warning: I obviously have no brain. |
You are too kind to me and too hard on yourself. |
| Quote: | Higher level powers should not be allowed.
As psions as limited to knowing a rather limited number of powers, specifying that it has to be a power *known* and not a power manifested from an external source or replicated with a higher level power makes this ability highly limited. |
Honestly, that was kind of the point. I'm highly inclined to say that if your powers are so lousy for imbedding that becoming a soulknife would suck, don't become a soulknife.
| Quote: | | Spell Storing Weapons allow a save, and only allow targetted spells (not area spells). Since many area spells make no sense as single target spells (Sleet Storm, for example), that saves us all a massive headache. |
Agreed. I will amend that when I next mend.
| Quote: | | As for the no core ability, that's fine, just allow a normal save for the Power (whatever power it may be) and it'll be based on whatever the core ability of the previous class was, no matter how you're handling M.A.D. - no backward compatibility worries |
OK. I'm liking that. On roughly the same note, do you think, then, that the Neural abilities are acceptable with no save?
| Quote: |
Nope. Every single Psion Soulknife is always going to wear a Mithral Chain shirt unless they can beef their Dex up to 32 or better or can afford Mithral Celestial armor.
Psywarrior Soulknives might go for other armor types. |
Good. I hate the Inertial Armor crapiness. I was aiming for something to make that not required.
| Quote: | | Well caster level PrCs probably ought to work the same for arcane casters with familiars and Psions with rocks, so this is probably fine in your game. (which is, I hope where you'll be using this PrC ) |
I'll delete that line when I do my next bit of amending. I'd like to keep as close to the real D&D rules as I can when writing this.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Don't attribute the gender issues to him. It's a copy/paste job from Cordell's wording and the SRD. The SRD does the gender swapping bit. |
I thought I clearly pointed the finger at Bruce Cordell there
I shall continue to blame Bruce for everything that is wrong with the PsiHB until someone offers evidence that such blame is misplaced in any specific instance. |
 It was changed from PsiHandbook to SRD, so I assumed the upgrading people for the website did it for politically correct reasons (I mean Cordell's not working for them anymore, and how hard is it to add "or she" all over the place?)... I have to admit with a modicum of conceit, that I think my names are better than what Mr. Cordell came up with, but I've never been paid to write anything, so I guess my opinion is unfounded. Ah, well... There I go rambling again...
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Question for you: What the hell is a dead psionic zone? Why do I care if that's mentioned in the rules? |
It's a 2e/Realms thing, although the correct wording should be "area" not "zone" . They should probably be mentioned in the rules, because their existence is referenced on PsiHB 36, column 1 |
Oh, Goddess, they didn't...
"Dead magic" areas are also "dead psionic" areas? So where do I find info about dead magic areas? Why do things like this make me want to  people?
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Should I even care if the mindblade gets upgraded? Maybe I ought to just pick some nice stats to begin with and run with those... Like d6 slashing, 18-20 crit range. Scalable up or down; doesn't change ever...? |
If it's gaining enhancement bonuses with levels, then Upgrade is going to be minor for damage and only matter for size/disarm and similar things. |
Wow. How... Evasive.
So it's not too much of a problem if I make the mindblade badass and keep it the same throughout 10 levels? Good. I'd rather do that. More amending...
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Does your headache last night mean that I don't have to change that line? |
It does mean that the part I thought was problematic isn't actually problematic. It is still, however, redundant. Unless of course you can figure a way to interpret "can throw with a range increment of 30'" to be anything but a ranged attack. |
I'm tempted to say I'd rather not risk it.
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So trying to cover that by saying "A mindblade can never have more than one neural attack or power imbedded at a time" doesn't do it? How many times do I have to say this? |
I thought you read Frank's posts too
You have to say it once for each seperate ability listing, as you do not explictly define "neural attack" anywhere.
When viewed through the lens of Frank-Logic, the current wording bars you from imbedding a "Neural Disorientation" option and a Power at the same time, but does not bar you from imbedding a "Neural Disruption" option and a Power at the same time, or a "Neural Disruption" and an "Neural Disorientation" option at the same time. You have them listed as seperate abilities and the restrictions on one do not apply to the other.
My problem is that I doubt this doubling-up was your design intent. |
I fixed it be labelling each one an attack (see chart). Is that acceptable?
| Quote: | | On a similar flavor note, if you are seriously going for a Psylocke feel, you may want to drop the armor proficiency and offer Monk - style class AC bonuses. |
Bonus as in second stat to AC bonus, or bonus as in +X over 10 levels type bonus?
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collbarretz
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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It would be bonus as in +X over 10 levels.
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survival knife |
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Maj
Overdeity
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 9040
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Holy crap. This was some serious thread resurrection! I'm assuming it's for the backlink, but since it was a legit answer... What the hell.
The first post has been edited to reflect a scaling bonus to AC on the chart, and its description below. I didn't take away the armor proficiency because I didn't think that +4 made up for the inability to wear armor.
I would also just like to add that this is one of my favorite classes that I've written, even though the Soulknife has been completely changed over the editions. |
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